Piccolo America, Noam Chomsky and Ken Loach: the full transcription ocomplete dialogue of their first meeting at Cinema Troisi.


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Rome, March 29th, 2023

Noam Chomsky: «What power systems say cannot be allowed to happen is exactly what we should be trying to create. They are giving us a message, saying, ‘this is what you should be doing,’ and the message is so strong that they are saying, ‘when you try to do it, we will pull out all the means to crush you.’ Good, let’s struggle, let’s recognize what is happening: there is a harsh, brutal class war that goes on all the time, but it’s been quite extreme in the last 30 years, and if it is one-sided, the population loses, if you join in, it’ll win. There have been victories before, there can be again. I mentioned the struggles of the Italian working class movements after the First World War: they were quite significant and they required the establishment of a Fascist regime to crush and subdue them. Well, that can be picked up again: victories could come again, and they had better do, because we are facing crises of an enormous significance and scale and it is going to take the organized, informed, dedicated population committed to working in common to overcome this crisis of oppression and violence within, destruction of the environment, even war without–they are all connected. That is the task you confront, and it is a struggle that can be won. But not unless there is engagement and dedication to it»

Ken Loach: «We want bread, and we want roses, too. In other words, you work for the essentials of life, but you are entitled to a life of dignity and pleasure and leisure and sports and culture and art, and that is a right we have as people, as human beings. […] It’s hard to better the old American slogan, agitate, educate, organize. I think that agitation and education are fine, but without organization we cannot win. That is the question: how we organize to win. What is the political plan that is available to us?»

29 March 2023